Beat Jake and Rosy in 3 games last night. Not a very high level match in general. The first game we were good and they were bad. The second it switched. The third it switched again. The first play of the third game Phil set me tight and I jousted with Jake. I won the joust and they were not able to get the ball back over. I essentially crushed the net but the refs completely missed it. They told Jake they felt the ball hit the net. It might have, but I definetely netted and I was shocked it wasn't called. They never recovered from that call as I served for the next 5 points to make it 6-0 before they sided out. We continued to increase the lead throught out the game and won 15-8.
Supposed to play the kiwi's tomorrow. We'll see. Lot of weird stuff going on in this tourney with people forfeiting and playing poorly on purpose. The pool play format is just ripe for cheating and adjusting things to make sure you or your "friends" get out of pool in the best possible position. I will let you know tomorrow.
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20 comments:
Todd - That sucks at the International (even Olympic) level there is cheaters in the pools. This does not seem very legit. Why? Sounds like corruption to me...how come there is not a crackdown on this?
I never knew...while watching the olympics on TV...that what leads up to that point is cheating and corruption. Wow that gives me a whole new aspect on Olympic Volleyball.
I saw the Draw and there are many withdrawals, I´m not quite sure which case/s is/are the ones you are refering to, but this quantity in a World Championship is not normal. It´s a shame if this is a case of withdrawal for their or someone else´s benefit but it wouldn´t surprise me if it was like this. In fact, in Beijing I found out that after the Latvians won against you and Phil and lost against Argentina, they arranged the match with the Swiss team to go to a tie-break so they could both qualify for the next round (it ended up 15-13 in the third)
If you knew you hit the net in the Jake/Rosie match, why didn't you call it, simply as a matter of honor? Agree its not your technical responsibility (its the ref's), but it's a question of sportsmanship, especially so as you are the gold medal winner.... that's a bit disappointing.
It could be considered poor sportsmanship but that's what the refs are there for, to make the calls. That is why there is no "honor". I think it is the rare occasion where a player will admit he/she netted or touched the ball on a block if a ref doesn't see it. Even if this did happen, would a ref accept your admission and change his call?
That is bizarre re: forfeiting and cheating for your friends. Aren't there points and prize money on the line for the individual teams? You would think that would be enough incentive to play the best you can. Well, tomorrow when you play NZ, since you are the Professor, figure out how you can beat them and also ensure that Gibb/Rosie, Casey/Furby, Keenan/Lucena, Kessy/Ross, Branagh, Young and Akers/Turner.all into the single elimination. Also see if you can get a wild card for May/Walsh too! That'll show 'em!!!! Good luck again against NZ.
Anonymous said...
If you knew you hit the net in the Jake/Rosie match, why didn't you call it, simply as a matter of honor? Agree its not your technical responsibility (its the ref's), but it's a question of sportsmanship, especially so as you are the gold medal winner.... that's a bit disappointing.
At this level, nobody would annouce their fault, there is too much at stakes, and that would put the referee in an awkward position. Two days before Jake, touched the net while blocking againt NZ in the second set and said nothing...
I saw the "injury team A" also and was wondering, and now there's an article up on the website talking about "the new rule in placing in the pool play" and the funny math that goes along with it. It mentions the forfeit, but not the injury. It's kind of confusing, but interesting... in a curious sort of way. Speculation and rumors, but curious.
Shocked to see injury to team A. I hope it's nothing serious to you and/or Phil and you'll be fully recovered for the single elimination tomorrow.
Garret
There has been 5 injuries so far in the tournament, none is real. A forfeit équals a lost game but no points are lost. So Todd and Phil were able to secure their lead in the pool without playing the game against NZ.
Unfortunatly, another american team, Lucena-Keenan, just tasted that kind of medicine against the two pedro's of brasil and should not be able to continu through the tournament because of that rule.
The pool system is clearly flawed!!!
My bad, Lucena-Keenan should be ok.
Is there anywhere online that actually explains how this format works? I've scanned the FIVB site and not found anything.
I guess you can't believe everything you read on the web. There is an article that says you and Phil forefitted against the Kiwis.
http://www.universalsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=13043&DB_OEM_ID=23000&ATCLID=3758637
It goes on to say that even with the forefit you and Gibb and Rosey will still advance.
Set the record straight
Jody from Chicago
I think placings in the next round are based on record and "score ratio", so Todd and Phil were guranteed first place without having to play the team from New Zealand.
"Phil Dalhausser and Todd Rogers of the United States, the gold medal team at the 2007 SWATCH FIVB World Championships in Gstaad, Switzerland, also captured their pool (B) Wednesday despite forfeiting their match to Jason Lochhead and Kirk Pitman of New Zealand.
With Jake Gibb and Sean Rosenthal of the United States defeating a team from Angola to tie for the Pool B leadership, the three-way tie of teams with 2-1 match marks was broken with Dalhausser and Rogers having a better point ratio (1.209) among the three deadlocked teams. Gibb and Rosenthal’s three-set win over Lochhead and Pitman gave the Americans the second spot in the pool with the Kiwi’s finishing third.
The United States also captured Pool H as three teams tied with 2-1 records. Americans Matt Fuerbringer and Casey Jennings had a 1.156 point ratio to win the group with Dutchmen Reinder Nummerdor and Richard Schuil placing second based on their victory over Paolo Nicolai and Matteo Varnier of Italy."
Sounds like a case of why play the match if there is no tangible benefit to playing. It's too bad for the spectators and it looks and sounds like a very flawed system.
"Sounds like a case of why play the match if there is no tangible benefit to playing. It's too bad for the spectators and it looks and sounds like a very flawed system."
Yeah, the worst things is that the norwegian teams were the first to use this and fews great games were cancelled, it's a shame for the norwegian fans...
I can´t understand why the FIVB applied a rule where, if you forfeit, you don´t get a 0-21 0-21 score. It´s totally ridiculous. Look at the following on Pool C: The Netherlands team won their first match and then they forfeited the next 2 games and they still advanced to the next round!! Not to mention that it´s terrible for the fans and the TV broadcaster to have so many matches not being played. The FIVB should provide a good explanation, this is simply embarrassing
I agree with the last poster that a forfeit should be 0-21...the system is flawed and if I only had a ticket for that day and didn't get to see you and Phil play, I'd be pissed. I understand why you did it, if all the other teams did it...and why risk a real injury.
Hypothetically if Gibb/Rosie needed you to win in order for them to advance, would you have played the match?
Garret
"Pool C: The Netherlands team won their first match and then they forfeited the next 2 games and they still advanced to the next round!!"
Well, concerning Boersma E.-Paulides from netherlands, one of them is really injured (blood circulation problem, very common in volleyball) and they should withdraw from the competition today. Same for the brasilian, a broken shinbone for Cunha...
Anonymous- I have never heard of anything like this in the Olympics, just "regular" tourneys. People can blame the players, but as a player, and having voiced strongly our disagreements on the format played, I think it is the format and the people that want to run that format. The pool play format has been played for years and years and everytime the players argue loud and clear that we should not be playing this format!
Anonymous- I was not aware of the Latvian/Swiss thing. How on earth did you hear about something like that? I heard nothing about that. Not even a rumor. Again, I blame the format.
Anonymous- This has been discussed by many of the players. Do you call your own faults out there or let the refs, who are there for that reason, call it? Do you call it if it is a friend of yours but not someone you don't like or know? What do you call? Nets, in/out, hand setting violations? I have to completely and utterly disagree with you. The refs are paid to do a job. Would an NBA player call his own foul? Would a MLB player call himself out? And what does it have to do with being a gold medalist or not being a gold medalist? Sorry but I could not disagree with you more. The only time I make a call like that is on in or out calls that the ball mark is clearly in and they have called it for us. Rather than having the ref get off the stand I call it in for them and wipe the mark. Waste of time for the ref to get off his stand to check a mark he is going to call in.
Garrett- I agree with everything you said.
Nick- Agreed. Actually Pedro Cunha has a stress fracture in his Tibia bone and is out for the season. The guy from the Netherlands may be out for the season as well. He forfeited two matches after winning their first match and still got out of pool!
Adam- You practically have to be a degree in math.
Anonymous- They used to do the 21-0, 21-0 score until Phil and I refused to play a match in the freezing pouring rain in Austria. We beat a team in 3 tough games the first day and then they forfeited their other two matches. Because they got those zeros they were out. We couldn't catch the other teams in pool though after we lost our second match and were stuck in third place but getting out no matter what. We ended up winning that event too. What they need to do is change the amount of points you get for a forfeit. You get 2 points for a win, 1 for a loss, and 0 for a forfeit.
Garret- Only center court needs tickets and we were on an outside court but I understand where you are coming from.
Todd
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